A Conversation Spanning Viewpoints: Regarding Migration, Social Justice, and Shared Understanding

Sam, 34, London

Profession Communications expert

Voting record Was a Labour party member from the age of 16, resigned three months ago and joined the Green party. Intends to vote Green in future.

Interesting tidbit Is the author of a humorous book exploring the dogs of famous thinkers.

Cat, Twenty-Four, London

Profession Between jobs, her last role was as a caseworker aiding homeless patients.

Political affiliation Has voted in two elections – Lib Dem, tactically, when she lived in south Gloucestershire; then Green.

Interesting tidbit When Catrina was sent home from university during Covid, she worked in a mortuary, then used that experience for her dissertation.

The Meeting

Catrina He was incredibly smiley, very bubbly and effervescent. He was wearing a fetching pink suit, which was his wedding suit.

Samuel She was fantastic company. I admired her recent four-month adventure along the Silk Road. She was inquisitive, articulate, and our chat never lagged.

Catrina It was a bit of a cultural hodgepodge, the menu, German but also Korean – I had a hotdog for my main, we also had an oyster. We had a few cocktails as well.

Samuel I had a lobster roll and an oyster, followed by a Korean doughnut.

The big beef

Catrina When I say I think there’s too much immigration, I’m basing that off the 900,000 figure, which I think is from 2023. My reasoning is that if we’re thinking about migration as something that happens not just to the UK but to the world, in many cases the UK government is recruiting workers from countries like west Africa, where there’s a skills shortage. I don’t think that’s an ethical thing to do.

Samuel Catrina isn't being hostile or prejudiced; her worry is that by filling gaps in our workforce with overseas talent, we deprive other countries of their skilled professionals. I referenced a famous satirical sketch about keeping the "brightest and best" in their home countries, which she appreciated.

Catrina A lot of net migration comes from an international student base, and universities cannot afford to turn anyone away. I absolutely love living in a multicultural country, but this doesn’t benefit anyone.

Samuel Her perspective made sense. Yet, the allure of our prestigious education sector is undeniable. The fault lies not with overseas students, but with a framework that values financial gain above all else.

Side Dishes

Catrina On so-called 'woke' culture, I believe it has overreached. My criticism is that it often focuses too much on personal behaviour rather than systemic change. Problems like racism are embedded in society; making it purely individual can deter people from the conversation.

Samuel Catrina and I are probably thinking of people like Ash Sarkar or Slavoj Žižek, who argue that the problem with woke culture is that it’s dividing the left. It doesn’t need a debate: you treat human beings as you’d like to be treated, you go through life showing love and respect, and people return it to you.

For afters

Catrina He had a brighter outlook on tech and AI. I see social media as a major complicating factor in politics and a detriment to personal wellbeing.

Samuel The doom-scrolling trap of social media is real. Yet, I'm inspired by humanity's technological journey, a testament to our quest for knowledge and community. Look at AI's role in advancing early disease detection.

Takeaways

Catrina We swapped contact details. He was a genuinely lovely person, and I hope we meet again.

Samuel Her gift was a postcard from Kazakhstan, depicting a beautiful mural painted on a derelict industrial wall. I found it profoundly moving. It made me reflect on my own capacity for such thoughtful gestures.